It has been cool the last few mornings. I am glad the week end is here. Next week is the audit and then it is home free for another year.
Kids, both goats and human, are doing fine. Looking forward to Daddy being home tonight.
I am looking forward to turning off the alarm before I go to sleep tonight.
Friday, October 18, 2013
Wednesday, October 16, 2013
Jones Relatives
Betty is trying to get me to help her find Jones relatives. I have not been much help on the Jones, but while looking for them, I found that her Jones in Harrison might?? have some interesting relatives and maybe Greta is a Cherokee Princess.
The Jones go back to Grandfather Luther Jones and Melissa Rodgers. Melissa Rodgers, so many online files say, was a daughter of John Wesley Rodgers and Eliza Irons. John Wesley was a son of Elias Rodgers and Anna Goodwin of Hickman County, Tennessee. Then, some online family trees have Elias Rodgers as a son of William Rodgers and Chassey [Cynthia] Jones. No one seems to give any rhyme nor reason as to how they know William Rodgers is the father of Elias but several online family trees have written this as if it were a 'fact'. I could not find anything to confirm this, but William Rodgers and Cassey were also in Hickman Co. TN at the time Elias was there, along with many other Rodgers and Jones. Then, the interesting part to me is that some have published online that this William Rodgers that married Chassey Jones is a son of John Hell Fire Jack Rodgers. Seeing that name, Hell Fire Jack Rodgers, is what actually got me interested in this. I have spent much of the last two days at work, not working, but trying to see if I even believe that Hell Fire Jack Rodgers is the father of William and William the father of Elias. I don't know the answer to that, but Hell Fire Jack Rodgers is really interesting.
He was born 1749 in Wythe Co. VA and died 1826 in Big Mulberry Bend FT Smith, Crawford, Arkansas. He had three Cherokee wives, one at a time, but still three and one of the three was his step daughter. He was the father of Chief John Rodgers, an early Chief of the Cherokees. I read many documents online stating that Chief John Rodgers was a nephew of John Jolly, however I never quite figured out how that was. I guess John Jolly was a sister to one of John Hell Fire Jack Rodgers wives. Maybe, or maybe not. No one ever made that quite clear, just that the Jolly was Chief John Rodgers' uncle. A daughter of Old John Rodgers and his stepdaughter was the consort of Sam Houston at one time when he was running with the Cherokees.
I know that Betty will recognize John Jolly and Chief John Rodgers. Now, she can try to confirm or disprove that Grandmother Melissa Catherine Rodgers Jones was a descendant of Old Hell Fire Jack Rodgers.
CAPTAIN JOHN ROGERS
John Rogers was a Scottish trader who lived among the Cherokee. He is most noted for being the father of the part Cherokee Tiana Rogers, consort to Sam Houston, governor of Tennessee and General and President of the Republic of Texas.
John Rogers is reported to have been a Tory Captain in the British Army who fought in the Carolinas with Captain John Stuart. [Anyone with proof, please contact me.]
Captain John ROGERS is sometimes referred to as Hell-Fire Jack. Some say this name was given by the Cherokee because of his hot temper. Others say that the name was given by the whites because of John’s cohabitation with heathen Cherokee. Others say that this is just a term invented by genealogists and historians to designate him from another John Rogers, who is called Nolichucky Jack. Hell Fire Jack is sometimes called John Rogers, The Trader.
John Rogers is reported to have lived about twelve miles south of Calhoun, Tennessee, on the Hiwassee River and had boats plying on both the Hiwassee and Tennessee Rivers. He may have been a man of wealth.
John Rogers appears to have married three part Cherokee women (+++ See note below.) One marriage was to Elizabeth Emory, daughter of William Emory and Mary Grant. Mary Grant was the daughter of Ludovoc Grant, who married a Cherokee of the Long Hair Clan. She had two sisters, Mary and Susanna.
John also married Jennie Due, a daughter of Elizabeth Emory by a previous marriage to Robert Due. By this marriage, Tiana Rogers was born about 1800 and she lived with Sam Houston at Wilson Creek, Indian Territory, where Sam kept a crude store. Tiana is buried in the National Cemetery at Fort Gibson on the West side of the Officers Circle, Grave #2467. The tombstone says: "Talahina Wife of Sam Houston". Some say that Talahina is the Creek name for Tiana.
(+++ See note below.)The third marriage is less well known. Based on the granting of Cherokee citizenship to one of her descendents, this wife is reported to be Alsey Vann believed to be a sister of the well known Chief James Vann.
John Rogers is often confused with his son John Rogers Jr., who was born about 1776. John Jr. is also known as Captain John Rogers for his service with the Cherokee troops of General Andrew Jackson in the Creek Wars. He was elected Chief after the death of his uncle, Chief OO-LOO-TES KEE or John Jolly. John Jr. died at the home of Mrs. Eugenia Townsley, in Washington, D.C., June 12, 1846, while presenting his claims for possession or reimbursement for the salt works. The Rogers were supplanted by John Ross, leader of the anti-treaty party, who became chief of the Cherokees after the general Removal in 1826. Captain John Rogers and Colonel A. P. Chouteau had established the salt works on the east side of the Grand River, near the present town of Salina, in Mayes County, Oklahoma. They manufactured large quantities of salt which was sold to the garrison at Fort Gibson as well as the Cherokees and other Indian tribes. Chouteau died in 1832 - possession passing to Rogers. Then John Ross, Principal Chief, in the name of the Cherokees, took over the salt works and gave the concession to his brother, Lewis Ross. Ross asserted the springs were the property of the national domain of the Cherokee tribe and might be leased to a new party if deemed expedient. Captain and Chief John Rogers, Jr., is buried in the Congressional Cemetery in Washington, D.C. There were three Cherokees buried about the same time; John Rogers, Jr., Thomas W. Starr and W. B. West. Their grave sites are #89-90-91, Range 40. His grave has no head stone.
Another son of John Rogers SR was James Rogers, a minor Cherokee Chief.
Ancestry: We know very little about the life of this man before he came among the Cherokee during the Revolution. One researcher has stated that the Rogers family first came into Wythe County, Virginia. From there William Rogers went to Pennsylvania and his brother Ben came to Tennessee and that Ben may have been the father of John. I have seen no data to substantiate these claims.
References: (1) OLD CHEROKEE FAMILIES by Starr.
John Rogers’ first wife was Elizabeth Due nee Emory and his second wife was his step-daughter Jennie Due.
Captain John Rogers [Jr.] settled at Dardanelle, Arkansas in 1821. He was the last chief of the “Old Settler” Cherokees. he died at Washington in 1846 and is buried in the National Cemetery. The wives of John and James Rogers were sisters.
(2) WHITES AMONG THE CHEROKEES, GEORGIA 1828-1838, collected by Mary B. Warren and Eve B. Weeks.
“Whilst I was stationed among the Indians, in 1814, in command of a detachment of United States troops, I became acquainted with a white man by the name of Rogers, whose wife was a half-breed Cherokee woman. He was an active, sensible, thriving man, and his sons promising young men..” [George R. Gilmer]
A long letter from Gilmer (Executive Department, Milledgeville, March 10th, 1831) to John Rogers is included in the text. One paragraph reads, “I believe you to be an excellent citizen. I have heard the most favorable accounts of your two oldest sons, for whom I have an affectionate remembrance. Yet, my advice to you, and to them, is to accompany the Cherokee people in their move [from Georgia to Indian Territory]. You can be more useful, and consequently happier, with them than with us. You will find that many of those who have been most active in effecting your removal, will be your surest friends in securing to you an independent Government, and every other advantage tending to the improvement and happiness of your people.”
(3) SOLITARY STAR, A BIOGRAPHY OF SAM HOUSTON by Donald Braider
“The Western Cherokees had been as completely Europeanized as their eastern brothers. John Rogers, a Scotchman, had been one of the first ‘squaw men’ of the American Southwest. he had taken Oolooteka’s sister as his bride and got several children by her.”
“Our information about Diana Rogers Gentry is maddeningly skimpy. Not even her name is known, though she was probably about ten years younger than Houston. The only portrait of her is admittedly a product of pure imagination ... She was the widow of David Gentry, a half-breed blacksmith who had come to Arkansas as early as 1817 and died in a skirmish with the Osages. .... After Diana’s death in 1836, she was buried near Cantonment Gibson. Later, her body was removed to the military cemetery. A headstone was set up over the grave, bearing the inscription” “Talahina, Indian wife of General Sam Houston.’ In death, the whites attributed an Indian name to her she had never had.”
The Jones go back to Grandfather Luther Jones and Melissa Rodgers. Melissa Rodgers, so many online files say, was a daughter of John Wesley Rodgers and Eliza Irons. John Wesley was a son of Elias Rodgers and Anna Goodwin of Hickman County, Tennessee. Then, some online family trees have Elias Rodgers as a son of William Rodgers and Chassey [Cynthia] Jones. No one seems to give any rhyme nor reason as to how they know William Rodgers is the father of Elias but several online family trees have written this as if it were a 'fact'. I could not find anything to confirm this, but William Rodgers and Cassey were also in Hickman Co. TN at the time Elias was there, along with many other Rodgers and Jones. Then, the interesting part to me is that some have published online that this William Rodgers that married Chassey Jones is a son of John Hell Fire Jack Rodgers. Seeing that name, Hell Fire Jack Rodgers, is what actually got me interested in this. I have spent much of the last two days at work, not working, but trying to see if I even believe that Hell Fire Jack Rodgers is the father of William and William the father of Elias. I don't know the answer to that, but Hell Fire Jack Rodgers is really interesting.
He was born 1749 in Wythe Co. VA and died 1826 in Big Mulberry Bend FT Smith, Crawford, Arkansas. He had three Cherokee wives, one at a time, but still three and one of the three was his step daughter. He was the father of Chief John Rodgers, an early Chief of the Cherokees. I read many documents online stating that Chief John Rodgers was a nephew of John Jolly, however I never quite figured out how that was. I guess John Jolly was a sister to one of John Hell Fire Jack Rodgers wives. Maybe, or maybe not. No one ever made that quite clear, just that the Jolly was Chief John Rodgers' uncle. A daughter of Old John Rodgers and his stepdaughter was the consort of Sam Houston at one time when he was running with the Cherokees.
I know that Betty will recognize John Jolly and Chief John Rodgers. Now, she can try to confirm or disprove that Grandmother Melissa Catherine Rodgers Jones was a descendant of Old Hell Fire Jack Rodgers.
CAPTAIN JOHN ROGERS
John Rogers was a Scottish trader who lived among the Cherokee. He is most noted for being the father of the part Cherokee Tiana Rogers, consort to Sam Houston, governor of Tennessee and General and President of the Republic of Texas.
John Rogers is reported to have been a Tory Captain in the British Army who fought in the Carolinas with Captain John Stuart. [Anyone with proof, please contact me.]
Captain John ROGERS is sometimes referred to as Hell-Fire Jack. Some say this name was given by the Cherokee because of his hot temper. Others say that the name was given by the whites because of John’s cohabitation with heathen Cherokee. Others say that this is just a term invented by genealogists and historians to designate him from another John Rogers, who is called Nolichucky Jack. Hell Fire Jack is sometimes called John Rogers, The Trader.
John Rogers is reported to have lived about twelve miles south of Calhoun, Tennessee, on the Hiwassee River and had boats plying on both the Hiwassee and Tennessee Rivers. He may have been a man of wealth.
John Rogers appears to have married three part Cherokee women (+++ See note below.) One marriage was to Elizabeth Emory, daughter of William Emory and Mary Grant. Mary Grant was the daughter of Ludovoc Grant, who married a Cherokee of the Long Hair Clan. She had two sisters, Mary and Susanna.
John also married Jennie Due, a daughter of Elizabeth Emory by a previous marriage to Robert Due. By this marriage, Tiana Rogers was born about 1800 and she lived with Sam Houston at Wilson Creek, Indian Territory, where Sam kept a crude store. Tiana is buried in the National Cemetery at Fort Gibson on the West side of the Officers Circle, Grave #2467. The tombstone says: "Talahina Wife of Sam Houston". Some say that Talahina is the Creek name for Tiana.
(+++ See note below.)The third marriage is less well known. Based on the granting of Cherokee citizenship to one of her descendents, this wife is reported to be Alsey Vann believed to be a sister of the well known Chief James Vann.
John Rogers is often confused with his son John Rogers Jr., who was born about 1776. John Jr. is also known as Captain John Rogers for his service with the Cherokee troops of General Andrew Jackson in the Creek Wars. He was elected Chief after the death of his uncle, Chief OO-LOO-TES KEE or John Jolly. John Jr. died at the home of Mrs. Eugenia Townsley, in Washington, D.C., June 12, 1846, while presenting his claims for possession or reimbursement for the salt works. The Rogers were supplanted by John Ross, leader of the anti-treaty party, who became chief of the Cherokees after the general Removal in 1826. Captain John Rogers and Colonel A. P. Chouteau had established the salt works on the east side of the Grand River, near the present town of Salina, in Mayes County, Oklahoma. They manufactured large quantities of salt which was sold to the garrison at Fort Gibson as well as the Cherokees and other Indian tribes. Chouteau died in 1832 - possession passing to Rogers. Then John Ross, Principal Chief, in the name of the Cherokees, took over the salt works and gave the concession to his brother, Lewis Ross. Ross asserted the springs were the property of the national domain of the Cherokee tribe and might be leased to a new party if deemed expedient. Captain and Chief John Rogers, Jr., is buried in the Congressional Cemetery in Washington, D.C. There were three Cherokees buried about the same time; John Rogers, Jr., Thomas W. Starr and W. B. West. Their grave sites are #89-90-91, Range 40. His grave has no head stone.
Another son of John Rogers SR was James Rogers, a minor Cherokee Chief.
Ancestry: We know very little about the life of this man before he came among the Cherokee during the Revolution. One researcher has stated that the Rogers family first came into Wythe County, Virginia. From there William Rogers went to Pennsylvania and his brother Ben came to Tennessee and that Ben may have been the father of John. I have seen no data to substantiate these claims.
References: (1) OLD CHEROKEE FAMILIES by Starr.
John Rogers’ first wife was Elizabeth Due nee Emory and his second wife was his step-daughter Jennie Due.
Captain John Rogers [Jr.] settled at Dardanelle, Arkansas in 1821. He was the last chief of the “Old Settler” Cherokees. he died at Washington in 1846 and is buried in the National Cemetery. The wives of John and James Rogers were sisters.
(2) WHITES AMONG THE CHEROKEES, GEORGIA 1828-1838, collected by Mary B. Warren and Eve B. Weeks.
“Whilst I was stationed among the Indians, in 1814, in command of a detachment of United States troops, I became acquainted with a white man by the name of Rogers, whose wife was a half-breed Cherokee woman. He was an active, sensible, thriving man, and his sons promising young men..” [George R. Gilmer]
A long letter from Gilmer (Executive Department, Milledgeville, March 10th, 1831) to John Rogers is included in the text. One paragraph reads, “I believe you to be an excellent citizen. I have heard the most favorable accounts of your two oldest sons, for whom I have an affectionate remembrance. Yet, my advice to you, and to them, is to accompany the Cherokee people in their move [from Georgia to Indian Territory]. You can be more useful, and consequently happier, with them than with us. You will find that many of those who have been most active in effecting your removal, will be your surest friends in securing to you an independent Government, and every other advantage tending to the improvement and happiness of your people.”
(3) SOLITARY STAR, A BIOGRAPHY OF SAM HOUSTON by Donald Braider
“The Western Cherokees had been as completely Europeanized as their eastern brothers. John Rogers, a Scotchman, had been one of the first ‘squaw men’ of the American Southwest. he had taken Oolooteka’s sister as his bride and got several children by her.”
“Our information about Diana Rogers Gentry is maddeningly skimpy. Not even her name is known, though she was probably about ten years younger than Houston. The only portrait of her is admittedly a product of pure imagination ... She was the widow of David Gentry, a half-breed blacksmith who had come to Arkansas as early as 1817 and died in a skirmish with the Osages. .... After Diana’s death in 1836, she was buried near Cantonment Gibson. Later, her body was removed to the military cemetery. A headstone was set up over the grave, bearing the inscription” “Talahina, Indian wife of General Sam Houston.’ In death, the whites attributed an Indian name to her she had never had.”
Monday, October 14, 2013
Sunday, October 13, 2013
Two by Two's
In February 2011, about 2 and a half years ago,Patsy gave us five goats, then, last year, Sam gave us Little Grey, so that made us a starter herd of six goats. From those original, with the loss of 2 nannies and giving away two billy bottle babies, we now have a herd of thirteen goats. A fair sized herd of goats, especially considering that so far only the 3 originals, Sandy, Big White and Little Grey do not descend from Bertha.
This is Sandy, the largest of all our goats. She has never had kids since we got her. I thing she is really old and not likely to get bred. She pushes all the others around but is not really a leader, just cranky.
This is Big White and her two kids born on St. Pat's day, Patsy and Hot Rod. Bertha's Billy is their sire. Hot Rod is our new herd billy, but I don't think he has bred any of the nannies yet this year. I think Big White is bred to Bertha's Billy again. I love the way Patsy's ears fly out when she runs.
This is Little Grey and Baby Grey. Bertha's Billy is her sire.
Bertha and her new babies. Bertha's Billy is their sire.
Bertha's Billy and Lil Sis, born in May 2012. These are the only two kids from 2012. Bertha's Billy is now a weather and will not be siring any more kids, but I think we have three nannies that will have kids by him this winter.
This is Half-N-Half, Lit Sis' kid born in May of this year. He is a weather now.
This is Black Jack, Berth'a kid born in February of this year. He is a weather now, also. George calls him Tippy because of his white tipped tail, but I think Tippy is a dog's name. Black Jack is a much more fitting Billy Goat Gruff name.
So there we are, a herd of thirteen, and ten of those are thanks to Bertha.
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